Exposing the LASIK Scam

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 Post subject: Any experiences with OrthoK lenses?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:14 pm 
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
I had a screening a few weeks ago for LASIK. The doctor is admittedly a LASIK guy, not a PRK guy although he will certainly do that procedure if that's what I want. He likes LASIK because he can go back and tweak the 1st results if you want. With PRK he said that you basically get what you get and there's no going back.

However, I found out my corneas are thin--520 microns (?) I believe was the number he gave with 500 being his cut off point. He said it's still do-able though. That fact also makes me wary. He also was very upfront about the fact that I will not see as crisp as with my glasses or contacts and in fact for certain activities I might still need them and will most certainly need reading glasses if I don't get monovision. He's big on that I can tell but not pushing it. He also warned me about possible flares and ghosting so it really does make you stop and think. So, now I'm thinking "no" on the LASIK (too risky) and wanting to try OrthoK lenses.

Are they as comfortable as my nice soft lenses now? has anyone here used them or know of anyone who's used them with good (or bad) success? If it's so great, why don't more people use them? If you have them, is it worth the money? (For me it would be like, $2000)

After doing some more Googling I've found out that it works better on patients with lower myopia. Some sites say no more than -6.00 and others -4.50. My eyes are -5.5 and -5.75 so not sure if I'm a candidate or how much I would benefit from this. If anyone's had these lenses I would be interested in hearing from you.

OR, has anyonen heard of any other technologies coming down the pike that might replace LASIK?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:22 pm 
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Oh, One of the reasons I've decided against it is that the doctor said the complications are less than 1% in 1 million. However, when you think about it, that's still up to 10,000 people with problems! Plus on another site they said that if you give a survey to people, 95% or more will say they love their Lasik results, but if you delve further, you find that they check boxes that say they have dry eyes or halos, etc. So that ups the odds a bit donchathink?

Anyway, I thought it had improved in the last few years and I'm sure in a general way it has, but it's not for me, not at this point in time anyway. I love my eyes too much.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:16 pm 
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mrsfrobes,

Let me address some of the misinformation you've been given.

There is no such thing as a "TWEAK". It's another surgery. They like to use terms like "tweak", "upgrade", "refinement", and "enhancement" to downplay it. Make no mistake about it, it's SURGERY, with RISKS. In some ways a 2nd surgery carries greater risks than a primary surgery.

Regarding reading glasses... How old are you? LASIK surgeons misinform patients when they say that you will need reading glasses whether you have LASIK or not. Not true. You will retain the ability to see up close naturally simply by removing your glasses. If you have LASIK or PRK, you lose your near vision after presbyopia sets in.

Other technologies? Yes, there are other technologies such as phakic IOLs and refractive lens exchange. These are invasive procedures with risks. Phakic IOLs are becoming popular with LASIK surgeons for treating higher levels of myopia, but don't fall for the hype -- they are bad news!!!

1% complication rate? Which complication is that, loss of 2 or more lines of best corrected vision??? Yeah, they don't count things like impaired night vision and dry eyes as complications, even if it's so debilitating that you are in constant pain, wearing moisture goggles, instilling eye drops every 10 minutes, unable to see detail in dim light, unable to drive at night, and can no longer live a normal life. None of that is a complication. :roll:

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"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato


Last edited by Broken Eyes on Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: I know alot about orthoK
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:38 am 
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Ok let me reply. You made the right choice by choosing not to get lasik! Your surgeon was honest when he said:

"He also was very upfront about the fact that I will not see as crisp as with my glasses or contacts and in fact for certain activities I might still need them and will most certainly need reading glasses if I don't get monovision."


He gets points for honesity. Most surgeons will lie and say youll see just as well after lasik as you do with glasses/contacts! This one at least knows that lasik impairs vision in every way(he mentioned flares and ghosting) and if you are lucky enough to end up 20/20, its "lasik" 20/20 and inferior to 20/20 with glasses/contacts. I wish every surgeon was upfront about lasik impairing your vision. Almost no one would get lasik and thats the way its supposed to be because lasik is flawed, risky and dangerous and damages every eye. Lasik also often doesnt even free you of glasses, many people just end up in reading glasses or need them to drive!

Another thing, if you are happy with your contacts and find them comfortable or at least tolerable, why would you be interested in any refractive surgury? They wont do the job right like your contacts and glasses can! All forms of refractive surgury and lasik induces aberrations, distortions and complications!

I know alot about orthoK. To answer some of your questions, orthoK should be alot more popular. The sad thing is not many have heard about orthoK and the hype of lasik is strong as an easy "fix" that will make them "forget" about their refractive error. They fail to realize lasik creates new problems much worse than dealing with glasses. Not enough doctors offer orthoK, I see alot more offering lasik than orthoK :roll:

Another reason is those who can tolerate soft contacts and dont mind them have no need for orthoK in most cases. I wouldnt be interested in orthoK myself if soft contacts didnt dry and irritate my eyes and couldnt be felt(which they could) I know people who tried orthoK and they sleep in the orthoK retainer lens overnight without feeling a thing and when they wake up, they can remove the lens before it gets uncomfortable. They avoid glasses(or reduce dependency) and uncomfortable daily wear contacts.


OrthoK may not eliminate your refractive error, but an undercorrection will keep you out of reading glasses anyway and still greatly reduce your dependency on distance glasses. I am getting orthoK very soon and it will reduce my myopia so I see better, not depend on distance glasses much and still keep me out of reading glasses.


As for new technologies, what you want to look into is wavefront glasses and improvements in contacts and orthoK. I really believe orthoK should replace lasik!

_________________
Lasik damages every eye! Lasik induces more aberrations, even so called "wavefront!" Stick to glasses!


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 Post subject: bump for mrsfrobes to read
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:17 pm 
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I have replied to your question. Feel free to comment :P

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Lasik damages every eye! Lasik induces more aberrations, even so called "wavefront!" Stick to glasses!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:01 pm 
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Thanks for all your comments!

I looked into OrthoK with my current opthamologist and they do it but I would have to go to San Jose--a 40 mile drive--each time for multiple fittings because my prescription is higher (-5.75). Plus the $$$ of course which I've been quoted $1800 to $2000. So I guess it's not in the cards for me this year unfortunately until I can find a place that's more convenient.

I agree with you. I don't know why companies don't put more money into OrthoK type research. Nobody I've talked to about it even knows what it is. I'd bet it would take off if they improved it and marketed it so people with higher myopia could use them and it was less costly.

I really decided not to go ahead with lasik because of many of the posts here an on other sites. It's just too much of a chance. Seems like most everyone has SOME sort of complication but many people seem ok with it I guess because they consider it a "trade off" for not having to hassle with glasses/contact. I've been wearing glasses and contacts for 30+ years now so it's not that big of a deal to me as these people who freak out when they have a +1.00 at 50. I started with hard lenses and if you're old enough, you remember how "comfortable" those were! (NOT!)

I remember in this video at the surgeon's office it said "Severe complications are rare but if it happens to you, it's 100%". That really stuck with me. Since I'm 44 and have thinner corneas I feel my odds are more than the 1% figure I've been quoted for something to go wrong. I have nothing to back it up but my gut feeling. You guys really helped me make my decision and for now it feels right not to go ahead with it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:11 pm 
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Oh p.s. One thing the surgeon did say that struck me as odd. I asked him about complications and also the patients he had who were happy and not. He said that in his experience the patients that were the least happy were those who were really picky about their vision and they are just never happy because they want to see how they saw with glasses and that's just not going to happen.

After reading many of the comments here I would not call the people here "picky". They seem to be really suffering and do not strike me as "whiners" or just generally unhappy people--something really BAD happened to them--and it could have been me! I guess that's the tape recording that kept playing over and over in my brain when I decided not to do it, "These people do not seem crazy. They seem legitimate and logical to me".

When I asked the surgeon why he still wore glasses, he looked at me like no one had ever asked him that. He said his corneas were too flat, but I wonder if it was more like since he's a surgeon he knows he needs to see perfectly clear and that wouldn't happen if he got Lasik himself.


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 Post subject: You are welcome!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:44 am 
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If you are happy with your soft contacts and can tolerate them, stick with those. They correct much higher prescriptions than orthoK. I am getting orthoK to reduce my dependency on distance glasses(not eliminate) but I wont end up in reading glasses either which is good. Id much rather wear glasses for driving than reading, especially since I read alot! :P


I will be sure to speak all about my orthoK experience very soon. Perhaps I can convince many to choose orthoK instead of dangerous, risky, problamatic lasik which damages every eye! It is sad most people dont even know about orthoK, we need to change this. OrthoK for myopia of -6, -8 and even -10 is being reserched. One optometrist had success fully correcting a -10 lady, a truly exceptional case done with advanced Corrective Corneal Contouring! CCC orthoK can correct -5 to -8 diopters most of the time fully or nearly(the smaller the orthoK zone, the more correction) Regular orthoK corrects up to -4 diopters with a 6mm zone, -6 with a 5mm or smaller zone. Considering most people have lower amounts of myopia and nearly everyone is less than -6, the market for orthoK is huge. Even partial corrections with orthoK are done, one lady was -8 and is now -4 after orthoK and is extremely happy! Lasik is useless and should be replaced by orthoK!


You made the smart decision not to go with lasik. You just wouldnt be happy with lasik, its problems and decreased vision when your glasses/contacts do a much better job! Seeing well is far more important than the possible chance of reduced dependency of glasses lasik might bring. Lasik just aren't worth compromising your vision and the health of your eyes and many people stillneed glasses part time! No one should be fooled into thinking they need to "trade off" their vision. Glasses, contacts and orthoK do the job right without any "trade offs"


The odds of severe complications is more like 10%, something they dont want you to know. Minor complications happen to everyone, there will be "trade offs" in your vision and health of eyes after lasik. Lasik is fundamentally flawed and a "successful" outcome is an oxymoron! If people knew as much about lasik as we do, no one in their right mind would subject themselves to the damage lasik causes!


Anyone expecting to see as well as they did with glasses after lasik is not going to be happy. Surgeons are obligated to inform you of this(like yours was honest enough to) As ive said before, no lasik for me because I want to keep my corneas intact, my eyes healthy and my vision good with glasses and orthoK.


People with lasik complications are not crazy. Ironically they can/could be 20/20 in the day or in a "controlled" environment and still see poorly most of the time, like halos at night or ghosting in a dimly lit hallway. They may also have dry eyes.


More and more surgeons are sticking to glasses because they know the dangers of lasik. People probably would wonder why the surgeon himself doesnt get lasik if lasik is supposed to be so "amazing" I can see the demise of lasik once more people know about orthoK and once orthoK technology advances. Also as more and more people realize lasik damages every eye, less people will get lasik. Also those who already got lasik obviously arent going to get it again unless they regress alot. When lasik surgeons dont get many "customers" they will go out of business and close up their lasik "joint" or stop offering lasik and just offer glasses, contacts, orthoK.

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Lasik damages every eye! Lasik induces more aberrations, even so called "wavefront!" Stick to glasses!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:31 pm 
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Thanks again. I hope you are right about OrthoK lenses becoming more common for higher myopia (and hopefully less expensive!) in the future. I really would like to try them someday.

I guess for now I'll stick to my soft contact lenses and my really great Eyephoric frames/glasses--they are rimless and SO light I barely know I have them on and they don't slip like regular glasses. They also transition to the sun but only a little (that's another area where I wish they could improve upon) and definitely not for bright daytime driving. So there's my plug for the day. :D

http://www.eyephorics.com/engl/index.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:18 am 
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Thats some nice glasses! You could get orthoK now and youd only need glasses for driving and movies and the undercorrection will keep you out of reading glasses :D

Hows those soft contacts for you? If you like them, whats the advantage to orthoK over those? I see a much bigger advantage to orthoK compared to glasses. I wish I could tolerate contacts then I wouldnt really be interested in orthoK cause contacts can also reduce my dependency on glasses.

_________________
Lasik damages every eye! Lasik induces more aberrations, even so called "wavefront!" Stick to glasses!


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