Exposing the LASIK Scam

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 Post subject: New to site and Lasik, question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:38 am 
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Location: Goodyear, Az
Hey All,

First let me say that I wish I had found this site BEFORE I decided to have lasik surgery. But, whats done is done and I can't take it back. I also didn't post this in the "went horribly wrong" section, because it hasn't gone horribly wrong yet. But I do have an issue that I would like to run by you. I am about 1 month and 10 days post op. I had my surgery at TLC in Albany and I had the "custom intralase" procedure. It was lauded as the best there is, no problems, blah blah. You know how it was spun. Anyway, at my 1 week post op appointment, I still had haze in my left eye. They said everything is fine, everything looks fine, it takes time, don't panic, it could be the other eye tomorrow, etc etc. It was at that time I started looking for LASIK GONE WRONG info and came across this site. But, I decided not to panic since it was only a week. Well in the time between my 1 week follow up and my 1 month follow up, I moved to AZ. So now my doc doing my follow ups is independent of TLC Albany. I told him I still had haze in my left eye and he confirmed. He was able to see the slight haze. He put me back on the steroid drops for 2 weeks and I have another follow up with him on monday (I can't wait to see if TLC will cover the cost.) Now, I am resisting the urge to panic for a couple of reasons. 1, it has only been a month. 2. The haze is so slight, that with both eyes open, my right eye will compensate and the only time I notice it is in darker situations or right after I get up or just before I go to bed, when I am tired. It also may be responsible for the fact that my left eye is reading 20/20 and my right eye 20/15. My question to all of you is... should I panic or just keep waiting and be patient? Everything that I have read indicates that haze after lasik isn't common and that if it occurs, sometimes they will lift the flap to clean. Well, I think I would rather just live with it if it comes to that based on what I have read here. I count myself lucky compared to most folks here and I can live with slight, barely bothersome haze for the rest of my life. I just really want to know, straight up, if it still has a chance or clearing up. I know that if I ask TLC they will just tell me its too soon. And perhaps it is, but I wanted to hear it from you folks. Thanks a lot for your time and I apologize for the length.

Justin

PS I have since talked a friend out of this procedure. I figured that if I couldn't save myself, maybe I can at least save someone else.


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 Post subject: Hi Justin
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:31 pm 
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Welcome to the flap!

You're right - haze is much more common after surface treatments than LASIK. Intralase is a relative newcomer on the corneal surgery horizon, and it causes more cell damage than a microkeratome. Burning a highway through your cornea is much more destructive to tissue than the cleaner microkeratome cut.

Doctors switched to laser-cut flaps because microkeratomes are mechanical and sometimes malfunction. The flap thickness is less variable with laser-cut flaps as well.

Now you have some haze after Intralase LASIK, and you're wondering how you got that and what the prognosis may be. The best guess is the haze is there because you had a form of sterile inflammation called DLK, or diffuse lamellar keratitis. My guess is that DLK will be more common after intralase LASIK because more cell damage is associated with increased inflammation. If you have more dead and dying cells in the interface, more pharmacological mediators of inflammation are released to 'call in the troops', that is - to recruit inflammatory cells to the site.

Inflammatory cells damage surrounding tissue and cause the haze.

Your doctor has you on steroids, which is another hint that DLK was the culprit. Steroids reduce inflammation and are prescribed to treat DLK.

Try asking your doctor straight up if you have or have had DLK. If he says yes, ask him which grade - and then tell us.

So, DLK is associated with the development of haze. Haze may or may not clear up. The haze associated with DLK happens to the tissue at the flap interface, whereas... logically... haze from surface treatments happens at the surface. I don't know if the location of the haze within the cornea makes a difference in terms of resolution of the haze.

You are justified in being quite thankful that a bit of haze was your only brush with LASIK disaster. As you know, there are many with miserable outcomes that are a major challenge to live with.

It's great to hear that you warned your friend away from the procedure. Keep spreadin' the word.

You may want to remind your doc that you had healthy corneas and clear vision before and now you have HAZE.

Was haze clearly mentioned as a risk in your informed consent materials?


Last edited by Eye on Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:34 pm 
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Hi Justin,

It's hard to know how much improvement you can expect and over what time period. That's one of the problems with LASIK -- it's unpredictable. But I do agree that it's still early and things will likely continue to improve over several more weeks. Don't panic.

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Broken Eyes

"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:56 am 
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Wow thanks for the very informative material! I printed out what you had said so that I can ask my doc on monday whats going on. I am glad I have this guy because he is detached from the center that I had the surgery and he is a fresh set of eyes looking at my eyes. I understand he is probably in TLCs back pocket though.

I also posted a warning on my MySpace page because I know there are probably many more friends that have been thinking about it, just not out loud yet. I directed them to this site also. Thanks again. I will keep you posted.

Justin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:06 am 
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Oh I forgot... haze WAS NOT listed or discussed as a possible outcome. DLK wasn't mentioned either.

Justin


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 Post subject: Your surgery was medical malpractice, then
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:15 am 
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Haze and DLK are known and not uncommon complications of LASIK. Since you were not properly informed of these known and not uncommon complications of LASIK then you were denied the opportunity to provide fully informed consent for your surgery, which is MEDICAL MALPRACTICE IN EVERY STATE.

Run that one by your doc and see what he says! :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:36 pm 
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Ok. Had another appointment today, still slightly hazy. I did as you suggested and ask him if I had DLK. He didn't know what DLK was so I gave the noun name. He asked if I meant Sands of the Sahara. I said I think so (I remember reading somewhere that it is often referred to as that). He said no, I don't have that. He is continuing me on the steroid drops for 3 more weeks. What do you think?

Justin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:36 pm 
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JustinHEMI05 wrote:
I did as you suggested and ask him if I had DLK. He didn't know what DLK was so I gave the noun name. He asked if I meant Sands of the Sahara. I said I think so (I remember reading somewhere that it is often referred to as that). He said no, I don't have that. He is continuing me on the steroid drops for 3 more weeks. What do you think?

Justin


He didn't know what DLK was? You must be kidding me. Is this a LASIK surgeon? :roll: :shock:

Yes, DLK (diffuse lamellar keratitis) is also knows as Sands of the Sahara.

I'm out of time this morning, but if you'll send me a PM to remind me, I'll send you an article with pictures of various types of haze after LASIK and what they mean and how they should be treated.

_________________
Broken Eyes

"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato


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 Post subject: DLK (sands of sahara) and haze
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:24 pm 
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I'm just writing so others can see that Justin is not the only one.. I too was told I have corneal haze in both eyes after having intralase on both eyes (custom cornea on one) and I DID HAVE DLK IN BOTH EYES.. I think? it was a 1, but it may have come back and been worse, because one month into recovery, I had a situation where I saw hazy and lost all dimension in things and when I made it to the doc,, he gave me more pred forte (steroid drops).. but the damage was already done.. I still see no dimension in pics, magazines, billboards, etc.. and see a glow , blurry outline around all people and things,, or see colors brightly, anymore since that day I had the episode. Still No one can tell me what caused this loss.. I don't know if it was the haze, DLK, stromal bed melt, or what.. Yes, it's amazing to find out what these docs and their assistants don't know.. I asked about DLK at my surgeon's office, to an assistant, she had NO IDEA WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.. THESE STUPID PEOPLE... I bet the public does not realize that these people doing this surgery have NO CLUE WHAT THEY ARE DOING OR MUCH OF ANYTHING ABOUT IT.. How stupid is that?that they don't know what they should... I know more than some of them do, and that is very upsetting............
But, anyway, just wanted people to know that HAZE does happen with Lasik , custom lasik, intralase........... Yes, it happens...

Sadeyes

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:54 pm 
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HA! Reminds me of some quotes I've seen posted here, I think by Dr. Charles Casebeer:

"Lasik requires no fine motor skills. (The laser and the keratome do all the really fine work.)"

"Too many people believe that only the highly talented and thoroughly experienced can do LASIK."

A lot of LASIK doctors don't know what the hell they are doing. It's interesting because I always grew up having these favorable preconceived opinions of all doctors. I thought in general that doctors are all VERY smart, VERY skilled, VERY honest, VERY good people who are out to help their fellow man. I was SO ignorant and naive. Just goes to show you that you should never prejudge or generalize any group of people, even if it's a POSITIVE prejudgment. It's very hard for me now not to prejudge all doctors in a NEGATIVE way, thinking that they AREN?T very smart and knowledgeable of their field. They just so happened to be very motivated and very greedy to get themselves through med school so they can bring in the $$$, regardless of who they have to hurt along the way. Fronting all along the way like they know what they're doing, when really they are just business men/women trying to get your $$$.


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 Post subject: greedy/LYING docs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:56 pm 
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Regrets!!!
You got that right!!! I even found out that my old opthamologist lied on my records from a visit a few years ago, about putting hydrogene peroxide in my eye and and burning it.. I had to leave with a patch and have the nurse drive me home... I asked for my records after botched lasik and NOT TO MY SUPRISE,, he wrote that "I" grabbed the wrong bottle. THAT'S WHEN I LEARNED THEY ALL LIE....!!!!!

SADEYES

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 Post subject: Re: greedy/LYING docs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:54 pm 
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sadeyes wrote:
Regrets!!!
You got that right!!! I even found out that my old opthamologist lied on my records from a visit a few years ago, about putting hydrogene peroxide in my eye and and burning it.. I had to leave with a patch and have the nurse drive me home... I asked for my records after botched lasik and NOT TO MY SUPRISE,, he wrote that "I" grabbed the wrong bottle. THAT'S WHEN I LEARNED THEY ALL LIE....!!!!!

SADEYES


OH. MY. GOSH.

Why the hell did he put peroxide in your eye??? Why does an eye Dr. even need peroxide in their office? What did he THINK he was grabbing? I can't think of anything that is SUPPOSED to go into your eye that is in a bottle that looks similar to a peroxide bottle! I can't believe he lied about that on top of it. Why would YOU be roaming around his office dumping random liquids into your eyeballs!?!? Sounds reasonable... :roll:


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 Post subject: lying doctors
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:09 pm 
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Hi Regrets;
Yeah, before surgery I was blind without my contacts in,, and I was there just for a yearly exam to get another contacts prescription and get new contacts ordered.. When they do an exam, they make you take your contacts out and when it was time to put them back in , he brought me to the contact lens area where they had all these contact solutions on a shelf.. I told him I needed solution to rinse my contacts, he grabbed a box from the shelf, opened the bottle and handed it to me.. BUT this particular cleaning system is for leaving your contacts in overnight, you are not supposed to put it in your eye,, it's a peroxide based cleanser and you have to leave your contacts soaked in it,.. he handed me that bottle of stuff that should never be used as rinse and then put into your eye, and it burned right away,, so I thought I had something on my hand , so rinsed again and put it in again,,, It burned my eye so badly.. and that's when he had to put the patch on and the nurse offered to drive me home, because I did not have my glasses with me.. NEver needed to bring them.
STUPID JERK,,, AND OF COURSE HE NEVER APOLOGIZED,, AND I COULDN'T BELIEVE IN MY RECORDS, HE BLAMED IT ON ME.. LIAR!!!!! LIAR!!!! THEY'LL DO ANYTHING TO SAVE THEMSELVES, NO SCRUPLES, NO MORALS............ IDIOT DOC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I KNOW, CAN YOU EVEN BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:54 pm 
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Justin said:
Quote:
I had my surgery at TLC in Albany and I had the "custom intralase" procedure. It was lauded as the best there is, no problems, blah blah. You know how it was spun. Anyway, at my 1 week post op appointment, I still had haze in my left eye.


Justin, I am convinced that burning a highway through the cornea with intralase (femptosecond lasers) causes more inflammation/DLK leading to haze and longterm visual issues related to flap healing than a microkeratome cut flap. A microkeratome, when working properly, produces a clean cut. An intralase cut may be more reliable in terms of producing flaps with uniform thickness... but if I had to have LASIK and was forced to choose a microkeratome or intralase I would choose the microkeratome. Intralase is a marketing tool that doesn't help, and may actually further harm... the public.

Your doctor should have known what DLK is. And it isn't just whether you HAVE DLK now that counts... what counts is if you ever HAD It since your surgery. Ask your doctor if he didn't suspect DLK was responsible for your haze, what EXACTLY he thinks he's treating with that steroid prescription???

It may be a good idea to get a complete copy of your charts from TLC and to get copies of all your subsequent medical records. That way you can see everything they have been writing in your charts. It is common practice for LASIK surgeons not to document problems they see, but you may find out something that you didn't know.

Is this guy a comanaging Optometrist or an Ophthalmologist???

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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:55 am 
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Thanks for the replies! I will call him tomorrow and ask what he thinks he is treating me for. I am also going to make an attempt to get a hold of the surgeon back in NY. The guy seeing me now isn't a surgeon. I don't know what the title means but he is an O.D. according to his card. He is a TLC affiliated guy that is allowed to do my follow ups. I don't know his exact relationship, but I do know he has nothing about LASIK or TLC in his office. I am not sure what exactly qualifies him to do my follow ups but he is the guy TLC said I had to see to keep my "lifetime commitment".

Justin

PS remember I had the surgery in NY, while this guy is in AZ. So I don't know if they are even talking. I do know that I had an envelope to give him from TLC. It was sealed but I opened it and copied what was inside. I can't decipher much of it, but it appears to be a post op report. It certainly wasn't my entire record because it was only one page. Also, if this is DLK, is it going to progress and get worse or will I (hopefully) be stuck with this slight haze I have now?


Last edited by JustinHEMI05 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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