Exposing the LASIK Scam

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 Post subject: progression of ectasia?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:40 pm 
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I am in a new prescription every 4-5 months after 3 years post op.
Since the end of november my prescription went from OD spher -.75 cyl +.75 OS spher plano cyl 1 to todays script of OD spher plano cyl .5 OS spher +1.0 cyl -.25. This is just in the last 5 months. Any thoughts?
I saw yet another optometrist for this refraction. He has had lasik and has ectasia but not as bad as mine he said. I told him they don't know what a safe corneal thickness is and about the ectasia registry. I also told him it looked like we had been lied to and were not much more than guinea pigs . He agreed!
Yet Anand Ramachandran continues to work unimpeded to this day. Telling my story,in my opinion is a public safety concern. He has done harm and is probably continueing like nothing ever happened.
Stay tuned,my script is bound to drift off somewhere else soon. :roll:
Any explanation for this other than ectasia?
These are glasses,I obviously gave up on contacts after blowing a fortune on that.
My"normal" prescription before lasered eyes changed every 4-5 years and then wasn't enough to even be sure I needed a change.
I would give anything to have those virgin corneas that were so correctable and stable back,but the damage is done.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:30 pm 
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Hi lasick,

Has an eye doctor told you that you have ectasia?

Ectasia is characterized by progressive forward bulging of the cornea resulting in increasing myopia, irregular astigmatism, and loss of best corrected visual acuity.

Since LASIK nearly 8 years ago my script has not stopped fluctuating. Prior to LASIK my script was stable for 20 years. I am not too concerned about ectasia yet because my script swings in both directions -- not just in the myopic direction. And my astigmatism changes (I didn't have astigmatism prior to LASIK). I have had to purchase more glasses in the last 8 years than in my entire life prior to LASIK. Just since the beginning of this year I have spent nearly $1,000 on eye doctor appointments and contacts and another $600+ on eye glasses. The glasses I just had made aren't right -- I can tell they are overcorrecting me. It's a moving target. I can hardly remember putting on glasses and everything being in focus. I suppose that means my brain has adapted. :roll:

RK corneas were known to be so unstable that patients' scripts changed througout the day. Mountain climbers report vision changes at high altitudes after LASIK.

I think LASIK corneas are simply unstable, and that's why our scripts keep changing. In my case, contact lens wear probably also has an effect.

I do worry about ectasia in the long term. The fact is nobody really knows what's going to happen to unstable LASIK corneas over many years. Researchers report that LASIK corneas lose corneal cells (keratocytes) at a significantly increased rate compared to unoperated corneas, which is persistent, and doctors speculate that this may eventually lead to ectasia. If my memory is correct, I believe one study reported a 42% decrease in keratocytes at five years post-op, with the norm being an annual decrease of 4%.

I know of only way one to prevent these visual fluctuations and future problems-- DON'T HAVE LASIK (yeah, a little late for us).

_________________
Broken Eyes

"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:04 pm 
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Several different optometrists have told me I have ectasia and I'm still fighting to get the medical report saying so. Recently I got with the medical board to force some of these "doctors" to release my records along with color topographies. The statute is long over.
My script was going more and more negative for a while but seems to have swung the other way now.
A full dioptor in 4-5 months seems like a big change.
My script was very stable also,post laser,seeing an eye doctor once every 5 years or so and not always needing an adjustment.
I also had no astigmatism pre lasik. Both eyes were -4. Now each eye even has totally different accomodation when before they were the same and worked together very well. Even after months of vision therapy,the binocularity problem has never resolved.
I've forgotten what good stable vision looked like too. Guess this must be the brain adapts part,adapts to the buctchered organs that used to be your eyes.
I keep hoping I'll wake up and it was all a nightmare. Not yet!
I guess our eyes are bugging in and out like one of those kids dolls I've seen. Our corneas must be very weak. I mentioned the eye reshaping according to which side I lay my head on to the doctor and he gets that too. I was surprised to see an optometrist who had lasik when most of them know better,you don't see that too often.
I'm proud to have scared off a few more candidates in that office. It's the least I can do for them. They deserve the truth.


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 Post subject: prescription change in 7 weeks
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 2:13 am 
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My last prescription change was march 31st. My prescription has moved off again. This time in 7 weeks.
I'm still trieing to manage with glasses since contacts can't be tolerated. I have sunglasses for light sensitivity,reading glasses,computer glasses,and distance glasses. How's that for lessening ones need for correction. :roll:
When it moves off to a certain point,the dizziness and headaches etc are very intense.
It's my dominant eye that has moved the most.(right eye)
I have an appt but no refraction done yet.
I'm wondering if someone else has a prescription that moves around so quickly and never stabalizes.
I'm over 3 years from the original radiation burn by my "physician",Anand Ramachandran,who never reported my negative result to anybody,which is illegal in itself.
He is now cooking corneas in columbus ohio at lasik plus.
I believe it a matter of public safety to expose his complete disregard for the damage that he does and his disregard for the law and FDA.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 12:47 pm 
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I think we should have a contest for who has the most pairs of glasses. I have reading glasses, bifocals, distance-only glasses, reading goggles, plano goggles, dark-tint sunglasses for glare and wind, lightly tinted sunglasses for driving with A/C when it's not sunny, plus hard contact lenses. Yeah, I thought I would be saving money on glasses and contact lenses and solutions, etc. by having LASIK. :roll:

My script changes all the time, too. In January I had a new refraction and within a month I had two new pair of glasses made and as soon as I picked them up and put them on I could tell they are wrong already. I told the lady at Lenscrafters that they were wrong and she thought I was imagining it. So I started telling her all about my LASIK experience and using terminology that she wasn't familiar with just to shut her up. :roll: I just tolerate my new glasses, though, because I know if I go back and get a new refraction and more new glasses, they'll be wrong too by the time I get them made. My refraction is a moving target. Before LASIK I was a -4.25, no astigmatism, and it was stable for 20 years.

_________________
Broken Eyes

"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 1:53 pm 
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I'm looking at your prescription change from November to March...

That's basically no change...it just looks like a big change, because one was in '+ cylinder' and the ohter in '- cylinder' form. Prescriptions can be written with cylinder either positive or negative.

In negative cylinder form, your original november prescription was OD: plano -.75 and OS:+1 -1, which isn't that different from the endpoint you gave.

That said, if you're frequently changing prescription, that is a sign of possible mild ectasia/KC...and I think you should get regular topographies. But, truly, your prescriptions don't show a sign of ectasia. More likely, it's stable irregular astigmatism....which is why the prescriptions aren't wholly satisfactory...

In which case...it's either contact lenses or topo-guided PRK (in Europe, not the US)...to each their own...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 3:53 pm 
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We were almost exactly the same. I was -4 both eyes no astigmatism. Need ed one pair of glasses and could go many years stable.
A slight change causes me maybe more problem than others,dealing with the nystagmus,loss of binocularity and depth perception problems.
I have some inner ear damage that never caused a problem before lasik also that MAY be part of the big picture.
Having surgery on an ever moving target would work about as well as buying new glasses.
Maybe I could have PRK every few months?
The scripts are never wholly satisfactory of course,but close. Until they drift off again,this time in 7 weeks.
Contacts I cannot tolerate,never could. But now with a shirmers of 4,I just can't do it. Spent a couple years and thousands of dollars already going that route.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:46 pm 
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I did read wrong the first time...there was a .75D reduction in cylinder in OS, which is significant, though less than the 1D you mentioned.

My bad. Disregard my private message (but the difference in cylinder notations is worth knowing about)

From my perspective, you're in the grey area of what to call the variations. It might be a mild variant of KC/ectasia, or it might be normal vision fluctuations that many people with astigmatism have...I personally suspect that 'normal' fluctuations are much more noticeable when the astigmatism is irregular.

I'm in the same boat...by the way..with similar mild increases and decreases in cylinder. I don't know what to call it..and am on the fence regarding treatment. It's not clearly enough ectasia/KC to obviously consider crosslinking (but not so mild to discount it either)...


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 Post subject: Post LASIK corneas unstable...
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 3:05 am 
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I also have a different script each time I have a refraction. My axis of astigmatism moves. I have different vision at different times of the day. Some of these visual changes are likely due to LASIK-induced dryness that results from severing and burning corneal nerves during the procedure, and some from the fact that post-LASIK corneas can just be... unstable.

The best way to catch early ectasia is actually with a Bausch and Lomb Orbscan. Look for changes in the posterior float on the orbscan. Changes toward forward movement there is often the first thing you can spot.

Ectasia... when it happens... usually results in fairly substantial changes in script and noticeable lost in best-corrected vision.

_________________
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:18 am 
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To quote Scientist...who is quoting an oft-listed quote:

Quote:
Ectasia is characterized by progressive forward bulging of the cornea resulting in increasing myopia, irregular astigmatism, and loss of best corrected visual acuity.


The problem with this definition is that it has too many ands. I've been able to communicate with others diagnosed with ectasia, and several patients don't have any overt posterior bulging or obvious corneal thinning, at least as picked up by an Orbscan. The Orbscan pachymetry reading varies a great deal and if you obsessed too much on that value--unless the changes are very clear--it could well cause more grief than insight.

The people that have the big posterior changes have seemed invariably to be those with very rapid myopic changes, and typically a more central ectasia, as opposed to an inferior steepening. Much has been written about this posterior changes appearing first...but frankly lots of people have very mild keratoconic anterior curvatures without noticing anything (and more than likely don't have red posterior curvatures at that point), so I don't see why just looking anterior isn't early 'enough'.

So my suggestion is to get the most basic topography--a Humphrey or similar placido ring topographer--and do it every 4 months or so, keeping track of the progression. Then you'll know if there's some significant trend going on, which would serve as documentation should it reach a point where you think C3-R makes sense (which is ultimately a patient decision, not a doctor decision, as far as I'm concerned).

If you can get other measurements, like an Orbscan, etc...that's great too...but you might have more luck finding a place that can get you a plain-old topography on a fairly regular basis and for a very reasonable cost.

So that's what I would do. What I am doing in fact.


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 Post subject: c3-r?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:16 am 
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Thanks for the info on c3-r. I'd never heard of it.
My prescription changed again in the dominant eye,almost back to where it was and now the other is drifting so I skipped the appt. It's extremely frustrating but this is how we must live now.
Glasses don't work well now even at their best, with a constantly moving target and astigmatism. And that's in bright sunlight. Low light is a completely different subject and at night,vision is horrible.
I knew it was significant vman,it's my vision.
I'm going to research this c3-r some more. Thanks again!


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 Post subject: Orbscan will pick up ectasia
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:15 am 
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An Orbscan will give data on the position of the posterior cornea, and ALSO gives surface data like a topographer. I don't believe that a topography would diagnose ectasia that could be missed by an Orbscan... but it's true it's harder to find an Orbscan because they not as widely available.

A Humphey may 'autocall' suspect keratoconus on any patient who has had LASIK. My Humprey scans were autocalled as suspect keratoconus and this, fortunately, is not the case (yet) with my eyes.

I had my Orbscan out of state.

_________________
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:30 pm 
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Hello Lasick,

Your fluctuation in vision could easily be caused by dry eyes or allergies. Most people do not understand how important the tear layer is to vision. Try some dry eye therapies or different drops before you panic.

Don't jump into c3r, it is still in the guinea pig stage.

Good luck,

Lynne


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 Post subject: topographies..
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:59 am 
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I just wanted to clarify..I didn't say to jump into C3-R. My suggestion is to get on a program of getting regular topographies....and the Humphrey machine is good in that you can get a time/progression display that can help to see if there's any systematic trend with time.

You'd need that record to even be considered for C3-R anyway. So my point is to get the regular topographies starting ASAP....the longer one waits, the later is the start point of your record keeping.

But by all means do try to improve your tear film...I have lots of vision fluctuations that are due to dry eye, and my vision gets a lot better when my tear film is good. But on top of this fluctuating component, there had been a steady progression of increasing irregular astigmatism over several years that at last got the words ectasia out of several doctors. And I considered C3-R, but have held up on it, as things have apparently stabilized.

But I'm continuing to get topographies regularly..it took a lot of work to find a place to get that done, with the right printout, etc. That's why I'm urging a rush on this point, because I know it's not always easy. And if you go doctor hopping, you can't easily compare topographies taken at different clinics (different color scales, etc)

Lastly, I don't think that ectasia=panic. Like keratoconus, there is such a thing as a mild case. I've encountered plenty of (non LASIK) people with 20/20 or even 20/16 BC vision, that have marked ghosting and/or night vision streaking, etc..they're not panicking about transplants, but are naturally curious about all the options, whether newer or not, to deal with these serious disturbances. They were diagnosed, almost all of them, by Placido topographers, such as the Humphrey.


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