Exposing the LASIK Scam

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 Post subject: Monovision lasik
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:40 pm 
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I had lasik in my right eye for monovision. I am a teacher, age 53 and wanted to be able to read without constantly looking for reading glasses. I was told that this would allow me to get rid of the glasses. It was explained to me that my brain would have to get used to the monovision.

It is now week 9, and I continued to wait for things to get better as my doctor told me. I visited him Thursday, 6-1-07, and was told by him that these sensations that I am having is expected as I was made nearsighted in the right eye. I could try a soft contact len in the eye after I told him I did not feel comfortable having another surgery that I would have to pay more money for to have the nearsightedness reversed some. He stated that we achieved our goal to be able to read, never mind not being able to see my students' faces clearly. He had me sign a statement saying that I would not be charged for the first fitting, but would be charged for future fitting.

I have fireworks in the right eye. At least, this is how I can describe them. I see 9 to 10 lights around a small light that I look at. This is daytime or nighttime. If I am within 2 feet of the light, the images blend into just 1 light, but as I move away the extra images start appearing. I cannot read normal writing on the chalkboard within 10 to 15 feet. I cannot see faces clearly from across the room, I see the image of a circle with dark spots where eyes, nose, and mouth supposed to be. I cannot enjoy my son's basketball game, or track events as I cannot see distances clearly. I cannot see road signs until I am very close to them. Today, as I went walking, I did notice that it seems as though there may be a floater developing in the right eye. I use drops a lot so I am not sure if this is causing it. I see it in the sunlight, but when I am in the shade, it does not seem to be there.

I have an appointment Monday, 6-4-07. for the contact fitting. Any information given would be helpful.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:47 pm 
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Quote:
He stated that we achieved our goal to be able to read,


Ha! Yeah, like when the surgery was a success but the patient died?

Patstin wrote:
I have fireworks in the right eye. At least, this is how I can describe them. I see 9 to 10 lights around a small light that I look at. This is daytime or nighttime. If I am within 2 feet of the light, the images blend into just 1 light, but as I move away the extra images start appearing.


You may have induced higher order aberrations -- coma and negative spherical aberrations. A wavefront scan will tell.

Quote:
Today, as I went walking, I did notice that it seems as though there may be a floater developing in the right eye. I use drops a lot so I am not sure if this is causing it. I see it in the sunlight, but when I am in the shade, it does not seem to be there.


Many of us experienced an increase in floaters after LASIK. I had a large curtain-like floater appear in my right eye right after LASIK. The floaters are more noticeable in bright light. Lubricating drops do not cause this -- the LASIK suction ring does. When they are preparing to cut the flap, they use a suction ring that raises the IOP abnormally high, which can cause posterior vitreous detachment, commonly known as floaters.

Monovision LASIK is another voo-doo surgery that many people cannot adjust to. It really ticks me off that they sell this junk surgery to patients with good distance vision who just need reading glasses. Reading glasses are a fact of life for older patients. Any type of surgery that claims to rid patients of the need for reading glasses is hype -- there is always a trade off.

Did they do a trial of monovision contact lens before they did LASIK to see if you could tolerate it??? :roll:

What is your refraction in your right eye now? Have this test performed and make them write it down on a script for you to take with you. It will be a minus number, and possibly some additional numbers. While you're at it, have the refraction written down for both eyes so I can compare the difference.

They said your brain would adapt? Ha! I love that one! :roll: They are counting on you getting used to having one eye permanently focused for distance (your left eye) and one eye permanently focused for near (your LASIK eye), so that no matter where you are looking, your vision is going to be blurry in one eye! Believe it or not, apparently some people do get used to it. I've been waiting for 7 years for my brain to adapt to permanently screwed up vision in both eyes, and guess what? I have nearly forgotten what good vision looks like, so I guess my brain is finally adapting! :roll:

Whatever you do, proceed with caution if you are considering an additional surgery to "reverse" the monovision. Those are two different types of LASIK (one is hyperopic-LASIK, the other, myopic-LASIK). I have never heard of anyone who had a good outcome after trying to reverse monovision.

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Broken Eyes

"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:28 pm 
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Thank you for the reply. I had lasik in only one eye, I guess I am lucky in that sense. I was recommended by another patient of his at my building who had the monovision and said she was fine with it. I asked her what did she not like about it, and she gave me no indication that she was having problems with hers. She stated that it seems that her eyes get tired at the end of the day. She says she has no problems with distance, and that maybe near is not as good as she would like.

My doctor stated that my distance is not good because I did not have the surgery on the left eye. I could opt to do that, and distance would be better. I have chosen not to have my other eye touched.

He continues to mention the number -225 I think, but I don't know what that means. He says that he could reverse to -1.75 I think. I was somewhat upset, so I was not listening to numbers while I was trying to explain to him that I expected not to have to wear glasses, not to have to exchange wearing reading glasses for wearing glasses all the time except for reading. They don't explain the tradeoff. What I am interested in knowing is should I have the contact lens fitted tomorrow? What problems could possibly come from wearing contacts this early after the surgery?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:36 pm 
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I forgot to answer the question of trial monovision, no, I did not try a trial contact for monovision. I was not told about trial before surgery. I did have lots of tests done before surgery because of the family history of glaucoma, sp?,. My father, mother, and 2 older sisters are victims of glaucoma. My mother is blind at age 86 and has had a transplant. She still cannot see after the transplant. But, another story.


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 Post subject: Monovision LASIK
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:12 pm 
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So what I gather is that you had good distance vision before surgery but wanted monovision so that you could have near vision without reading glasses.

To accomplish this, you were made nearsighted in your right eye. I have heard that around a third of patients NEVER adapt to monovision, and this is why it is unconscionable for surgeons to perform monovision surgery without a contact lens trial approximating the proposed surgery.

Now you are nearsighted in one eye (maybe -2.25 diopters?) and presumably near plano in the other.

The best 'first step' would be to go to an Optometrist NOT affiliated with your surgeon (or any other LASIK surgeon ideally) and have a good refraction (have your prescription measured with the big black owl-thing).

Consider having some glasses with bifocals made with your current prescription. See if this fixes your problems. Glasses probably won't do much for the 'fireworks' and multiple images as these symptoms are typically the result of surgically induced distortions called 'higher order aberrations, or HOAs,

As Broken Eyes explained, having refractive surgery on your corneas almost always induces permanent distortions, 'higher order aberrations',that cannot be corrected with glasses. Your surgery was fairly recent, and some of the garbage your are seeing may subside a bit with healing. Some of your dry eye may go away as well. You may have some permanent dry eye as a result of the surgery.

Corneal refractive surgery damages corneal nerves, causing dry eye in most patients. The FDA now warns that dry eye from LASIK can be permanent. Ask your doctor why he didn't counsel you about this before surgery, as older age and female gender are well known risk factors for dry eye.

You just may be able to get by wearing a soft contact lens on the eye that had surgery to bring you back to 'plano' in both eyes. You would have to go back to wearing reading glasses. Soft lenses do not help with higher order aberrations. Rigid gas permeable lenses (RGPs) may help with those distortions.

You are very lucky only to have had surgery in one eye.

Corneal refractive surgery is a hoax and a mutilation of healthy corneas. The laser industry and corneal refractive surgeons perpetuate this hoax to make money. Most people who have had the surgery have 'some issues' with their outcome, but you often have to know just what to ask to get them to admit this. People hate to admit that they have made a mistake with an irreversible surgery on a vital sensory organ. I have heard the 'tired eyes' complaint often. By the end of the day, dry eye from surgically-induced nerve damage and straining to focus to see as well as you could before surgery can really catch up with you.

Questions for your LASIK surgeon:

1. Why were you not counseled about permanent dry eye when the FDA warns that LASIK dry eye can be permanent - and you have known risk factors?

2. Why were you not offered trial lenses to see if you could adapt to monovision before you had surgery?

3. What is your current refraction (prescription)? Have them write this down for you to take home. Tell them you want a copy of your 'prescription' for your records. Do not have glasses made from a 'prescription' from your surgeon as surgeons offices often do not provide accurate refractions. They have a tendency to make things look rosier than they are, and may not admit that you have induced regular astigmatism that should go into your glasses prescription. Broken Eyes was not informed about her surgically induced regular astigmatism. Check up on your surgeon's office... compare their prescription with one you receive from an independent Optometrist.

4. What is your pupil size in the dark, and what are your higher order aberrations at this pupil size as measured by wavefront? Demand a new topography, and a new wavescan at your full pupil diameter. If your surgeon has VISX equipment he/she may only be able to scan up to 6 or 6.5 mm. More about why this is crap later! Ask for color copies of your scans as they are being printed. Do not leave the office without them. The best time to get color copies of your scans is while the technician is printing one for their files... just ask for a second for your own records.
Take them home and we can help you decipher them. You will need to know if your topographies show anything that looks suspicious, and figure out what your higher order aberrations are now.

5. Ask the doctor point blank if you have any evidence of striae (flap wrinkles), haze, or epithelial ingrowth.

6. Demand an explanation for the 'fireworks' and multiple images that you see. Ask if your ablation is well centered and even - do you have any evidence of a 'central island'?

I'm three years out from surgery and my brain hasn't adapted to my induced corneal distortions either. There is nothing natural about surgically induced higher order aberrations, and it's hard if not impossible to get used to shitty vision.

You will need to look into the root cause of your 'fireworks'.

It is common for monovision patients to have worse distance vision. Sometimes patients who are fairly happy with their new near vision wear glasses for distance (eg. when driving). Ask your surgeon's office for a complete copy of your charts for your home medical records. There may be a small fee for copying, but legally they must comply with your request in a timely fashion! If they don't, have an attorney send them a letter requesting your chart.

I completely agree with Broken Eyes that additional surgery is probably not in your best interest.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:09 am 
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Patstin wrote:
My doctor stated that my distance is not good because I did not have the surgery on the left eye. I could opt to do that, and distance would be better.


That's why I'd like to know what your refraction in your left eye is, also. I'd need to know that before I can comment on this.

Patstin wrote:
I have chosen not to have my other eye touched.


Good decision. I wish I had one untouched eye.

Patstin wrote:
He continues to mention the number -225 I think, but I don't know what that means. He says that he could reverse to -1.75 I think.


-2.25 is the refraction in your right eye (apparently). Think of it this way -- before you had LASIK, you were probably wearing reading glasses that had a plus sign, like +1.75 or +2. Well, the LASIK surgeon lasered +2.25 reading glasses vision onto your cornea. Now you are -2.25.

Now, because you are unhappy with this imbalance between your eyes and out of focus vision, he is suggesting to do the opposite kind of LASIK to treat (reverse) a little of the myopia that he intentionally induced.

I don't mean to get too technical but you need to understand the difference between the monovision surgery that you had, and the proposed reversal that he suggests. Your surgery treated the periphery of your cornea which has a steepening effect centrally. Steepening the central cornea makes the eye nearsighted -- that's what your right eye is now. To reverse this, the surgeon would have to treat/flatten the central cornea. These two types of surgeries, one on top of the other, are not very predictable, and can leave you with some unstable vision for quite a while -- not to mention the aberrations it could induce.

I forgot to ask you earlier... which one of your eyes is your dominant eye? If the surgeon makes a mistake and corrects the dominant eye for near-vision it can be harder to adjust than if the non-dominant eye is corrected for near-vision. Thankfully I didn't opt for monovision because the moron who did my pre-op exam wrote down the wrong eye dominance (along with the wrong pupil size)!

If you don't know which eye is dominant, I can tell you how to check it yourself.

Patstin wrote:
What I am interested in knowing is should I have the contact lens fitted tomorrow? What problems could possibly come from wearing contacts this early after the surgery?


I would be concerned about dislodging my flap if the lens becomes stuck, or DLK or infection. I know patients have started wearing lenses at around 2 months out. I can't remember how long I waited before wearing lenses -- it was probably a few months. I wore glasses for the first few months. My glasses got me by in the daytime -- my vision was totally shot in dim light, even with glasses.

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Broken Eyes

"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:12 am 
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I think I will cancel my appointment for the contact lens fitted and schedule one with the optometrist. I put on my sister's glasses that allowed me to see distance without the fireworks and more clearly. I think I will discuss glasses with my optometrist. I wore reading glasses that were +1.75 before the surgery. I could buy them from the drugstore. I had no problems with vision before the surgery with distance or closeup, other than reading. I could read the newspaper most of the time without the reading glasses. But it was difficult to grade paper for long periods of time at night.

I was told that my dominant eye was my left eye after he did tests although I am righthanded.


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 Post subject: Test your own eye dominance
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:04 am 
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Hold both hands out at arms length so that your fingertips cross at right angles and your extended thumbs make a triangle-shaped hole. Find an object in the distance such as a doorknob across the room and center it in this hole, using both eyes. Now shut one eye, then the other - the eye for which the object is still centered in the triangle is your dominant eye.

I am very sorry that you had laser eye surgery in an attempt to eradicate part-time need for reading glasses. In my opinion, surgeons who perform these surgeries on patients are commiting medical malpractice.

A good pair of glasses that correct all of your glasses-correctable issues could go a long way to restoring your equilibrium. I wear glasses with bifocals after LASIK, and my vision with glasses is a mess due to striae and surgically induced higher order aberrations. I have large pupils, so at night it's absolutely horrendous. I used to have terrific vision with glasses or contacts both day and night.

My guess is that you will fare MUCH better than most patients on this board. You'll be in glasses, but you needed glasses before. You have one untouched eye. What a blessing!

Make sure your surgeon knows exactly how you feel about your LASIK experience and his behavior. He's going to turn around and do the same thing to someone else. Spread the word about your experience in your community. (We all need to care about the next person in line :wink: ).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:55 am 
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Thank you, I tried the triangle test, and when I close the right eye the object is slightly to the left, but when I close the left eye, the object is slightly to the right. So this does not help me.

I guess I am the odd one out. Ha! Ha! Still trying to keep a sense of humor for sanity sake.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:50 pm 
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If you do the dominance test correctly, the object (doorknob, light switch, etc.) should stay perfectly centered in the triangle when you close the non-dominant eye. When you close the dominant eye, the object should no longer appear inside the triangle.

Be sure to center the object inside the triangle with both eyes open. And be sure to keep your arms/hands still as you close one eye. I have never met anyone for whom this test does not work when done properly. Everyone has a dominant eye. I'm right-handed, but left-eye dominant which is not the norm.

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Broken Eyes

"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:01 pm 
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I did the triangle test again, this time I made sure that I followed directions the best that I could. The object disappeared when I closed my left eye. It stayed centered when I closed my right eye. I think previously, I had the hole too large.

I did cancel my appointment with no problems. I am interested in knowing if I had a contact for the distance vision, would this help? My doctor did say at one point that lasik on the left eye would make the vision better at a distance. Could I possible try a contact for trial as I have no interest in lasik for the good eye?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:47 am 
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Well, at least now we know he treated the correct eye.

Patstin wrote:
I am interested in knowing if I had a contact for the distance vision, would this help?


Are you asking about getting a contact for distance for your left eye or your right eye (or both)? I can't answer this question for your left eye without knowing your current refraction in your left eye.

A minus lens on your right eye would improve your distance vision in the right eye -- reversing the LASIK treatment. You wanted near vision -- that's what you have now after LASIK in the right eye.

It's either one or the other -- near vision or distance vision -- as I said before -- it's a tradeoff. Personally I think monovision is a bad idea because one eye is always going to be out of focus.

Patstin wrote:
My doctor did say at one point that lasik on the left eye would make the vision better at a distance. Could I possible try a contact for trial as I have no interest in lasik for the good eye?


Yes, you can try a contact lens trial for your left eye. My question is -- how is your distance vision in your left eye (cover up the right eye)?

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"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:29 pm 
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Distance vision is not good apparently, in the left eye. He should have known this before suggesting mono for the right eye only. He did say that the left eye was 20/20, this apparently is not correct if I don't see well from 15 40 feet away. Or, is it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:30 pm 
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Distance vision is not good apparently, in the left eye. He should have known this before suggesting mono for the right eye only. He did say that the left eye was 20/20, this apparently is not correct if I don't see well from 15 40 feet away. Or, is it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:07 am 
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Patstin wrote:
Distance vision is not good apparently, in the left eye. He should have known this before suggesting mono for the right eye only. He did say that the left eye was 20/20, this apparently is not correct if I don't see well from 15 40 feet away. Or, is it?


This is bizarre. You are 20/20 in the left eye, but the doctor is saying your distance vision is not good in the left eye, and he's recommending LASIK??? :shock:

The only way to solve this mystery is to have a refraction done in the left eye and post the numbers here. And be sure that the refraction includes your BCVA (best corrected visual acuity). For example:

-.50 20/20

This refraction would mean that with a correction of -.50, the patient can see 20/20.

Sometimes the number looks like this:

-.75 20/30

This means that with a correction of -.75, the patient can only see the 20/30 line. So the BCVA is 20/30. This happens to LASIK patients with abberations... whereas before LASIK they were correctable to 20/20, now they are only correctable to something worse than 20/20. This happened to me. My right eye used to be correctable to 20/20 before LASIK. Now it's about 20/30 best corrected. They call that "loss of two lines of BCVA".

If there is astigmatism in the refraction, it might look like this:
-.75 .-50 x 115 20/20

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Broken Eyes

"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato


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